Bold Strokes: Dynamic Brushwork In Oils And Acrylics: Mark Christopher Weber: 677: Amazon.com: Books.

Actually I've just promoted myself to an intermediate-level painter, so I decided that I'm in a position to dispense advice to beginners.:lol: But seriously, I haven't been painting for that long, but I have some serious drawing training under my belt, and long hours of painting study plus (not quite as many) hours of painting practice, so I hope you'll indulge me in my ramblings. Maybe someone will take my words to heart, and actually profit from my experience. What I'm going to say is based on my own experience, things that I've learned the hard way from making mistake after mistake, but also from doing some stuff right. Take everything I say with a grain of salt, and always consult your physician before taking any medicine. My first advice to beginners is nothing new: DRAW. Whether your aim is to paint realistically or not, LEARN-HOW-TO-DRAW. Practice it constantly, from life or from pictures.

Copy great artists' works as frequently as possible. Get a good drawing manual, like the Bargue book or Loomis' books or Harold Speed's, take your pick, but work hard at it. Most of the same principles that go into painting also stand for drawing: lines, values, edges, the only thing missing is color. You'll be glad you did it when you start painting, after all, painting IS drawing with a brush. When you get to painting, you can either jump straight into color or do as I did, and stick to grayscale studies.

In order to avoid the coolish tones you'll probably get from Ivory Black or Mars Black, get something like Titanium White and Sepia instead. That's a really good way to get acquainted with oil paint without yet having to worry about color. Nothing wrong with color, of course. If you feel you're ready, go for it, but try to stick to a limited palette, like starting with White, Ultramarine and Burnt Sienna, adding one color at a time as you progress. If you don't have someone locally to teach you, get some good books. Ones that I think are essential are Loomis' The Eye of the Painter, Harold Speed's Oil Painting Techniques and Materials, and last but not least Richard Schmid's Alla Prima.

Mind you, actually seeing how it's done is MUCH better than reading about it, and will save you a LOT of time. Rent some painting videos if you can. Get at least one good book on color theory. I'm not a Munsell advocate (nor a detractor), so I'll suggest Creative Color by Faber Birren. Not expensive, straight-forward, practical, very good. As far as materials go, avoid student grade stuff.

Get some good paint and brushes. If you want to save, paint on paper.

All you have to do is get some heavy acid-free paper, and some acrylic gesso. Apply a couple of layers of gesso on your paper, on both sides if you want to avoid warping, and go to town.

Your main concern right now is just to have a surface to practice on, and not have it too absorvent. As for paints, a good idea is to buy big tubes of only a few colors that are staples, like Titanium White, Ivory Black (or other blacks of your choice), Yellow Ochre, Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber, Cadmium Yellow Light, Ultramarine Blue, Cadmium Red Light, Alizarin (or a substitute). Keep it SIMPLE. Don't get every color in the catalogue. Don't worry about buying the very best (and usually very expensive) paint at first either. Even though I agree that student grade is not good enough, and will be yet another hindrance to a beginner, I believe there's no need for spending your hard earned cash on premium quality paints like Old Holland, Vasari and the like. If you have the money, go for it, it's not my problem.

However, if you're not rich, believe me, it doesn't make that much difference. There's plenty of good archival oil paint in the market, and a lot of it is very reasonably priced, like Daniel Smith, M. Graham, Gamblin, Holbein, Sennelier, W & N, Rembrandt. Overall, one of the most important pieces of advice I can give you is to STOP OBSESSING about what paint to use, what brush such and such painter uses, what color is the best for this and that.

There's no need to worry about glazing, velaturas, Flemish techniques when you don't even know how to mix your colors or hold a brush properly yet. Another thing to keep in mind is that copying the Old Masters or even current masters is not wrong. You can profit a LOT from doing it, and even if you trace it in order to paint you'll still learn plenty. Do it as often as possible, especially if you have the chance to do it in person at a museum. The same advice goes to painting as for drawing: paint from life as often as possible. If you have to paint from photographs, learn how to get your own reference shots in a way that will help you, not hurt you. If you want to work exclusively from photos, you have to be as good (or better) at taking pictures as you are at painting.

Well, that's it for now. Of course that's all my personal opinion, not facts. There's plenty more I'd like to say, but time is short. Here are a couple of useful links: Loomis' books ((free.pdf downloads) Harold Speed's The Practice and Science of Drawing (A huge list (of links for free books for download Don't forget to use wetcanvas to its full extent. There are plenty of knowledgeable people in every forum to answer your questions, though you should use the search function before starting threads, as a lot has been discussed here over the years (none of what I've just written is new either). The free reference library is a great asset too, so use it.

Last but not least, STOP WASTING SO MUCH TIME ONLINE AND GO PAINT.:lol. I have to agree with Addy on buying good paints and avoid the student grade brands if your budget allows. Just buy a couple of paints to start with and add more later when you have spare change.

I didn't do this and regret it ever since. As to paper, yes use it! I use Cansons oil/acrylic pads and they are fantastic! You have a choice of two surfaces, one side is rougher than the other and it's pre gessoed. I used to buy the A3 size but if you want to save money, buy the A2(larger size) and cut them in half or cut to A4 size. Buy some foam core board and tape the paper to that for support.

Dosn't have to be foam core board, you could use cardboard, mdf panel or whatever that will be light and strong enough. I bought a realatively cheap six pack of various oil brushes that I still use. Once in a while treat yourself to a good quality brush, one that you find you use regulary. My first advice to beginners is nothing new: DRAW. Whether your aim is to paint realistically or not, LEARN-HOW-TO-DRAW. Practice it constantly, from life or from pictures.

Copy great artists' works as frequently as possible. Get a good drawing manual, like the Bargue book or Loomis' books or Harold Speed's, take your pick, but work hard at it. Most of the same principles that go into painting also stand for drawing: lines, values, edges, the only thing missing is color. You'll be glad you did it when you start painting, after all, painting IS drawing with a brush. You can tell from a painting if the artist has a good understanding of drawing, it definatly reflects in thier work. I always think that a good painting needs to start with a good foundation. Last but not least, STOP WASTING SO MUCH TIME ONLINE AND GO PAINT.

Yeah, the internet is a fantastic tool, but can be a nasty time wasting demon:D. I think you've given great advice.

One other thing that I always thought was the most valuable lesson for me was when I finally got to using primary colors, I had to mix them up to achieve gray. After I mastered making gray, I feel confident that I can mix just about anything! I have seen plenty of people experimenting with using 3 colors plus white (cyan, magenta, yellow), and I thought of doing that myself, but I absolutely love earth colors, and they're really handy to have.

It's a really interesting and worthwhile experiment, though. The only other thing I might caution is that using black is tricky and beginners may over use it. But that is MY opinion as another intermediate painter.ha! I don't know. In what sense? Do you mean that beginners might be tempted to use it to darken EVERY color or something like that? I vent painted once nice on paper.

Medium sucked up by paper/gesso. Oils too quickly dried. That might have been caused by too little gesso on the paper.

You need at least two coatings. Spread each coat in right angles to each other, sand inbetween. You can apply a coat of medium over the whole thing to oil it up a bit before you start painting or just tone it with a wash. I agree that it can be very absorbent, but so is gesso primed canvas if you don't apply an extra coat or too.

Good advice and thoughts, Addy.:thumbsup: I would like to add that hardboard is a good choice to practice on, as well (or even to do more than practicing, of course).and in fact I've found it to be cheaper than any decent paper. (Of course that depends on where you are, most places in the States you can find hardboard inexpensively at Home Depot or Lowe's.and they'll usually cut it for you.last time I added up and divided, I think it was about 5 cents for a primed 5x7 board, 8 cents for an 8x10! I sanded the smooth surface of the board and applied a few coats of acrylic gesso, and sealed the other edges with polyurethane or something along those lines.) One of the biggest pieces of advice I would give, also, is not to worry about trying to make masterpieces.:) Painting is a physical and mental skill, we all start at the beginning in learning and watching yourself improve over the years is one of the neatest things about it, in my opinion. I bought a realatively cheap six pack of various oil brushes that I still use. Once in a while treat yourself to a good quality brush, one that you find you use regulary. I do to have some very cheap brushes that I use ocasionally for an effect or other.

Your main brushes that you do the bulk of your painting should at least be decent enough, just like your paints. And they'll last longer. There have been enough advances in technology that synthetic brushes are nearly as good as natural ones at a fraction of the cost.[/quote] Yeah, the internet is a fantastic tool, but can be a nasty time wasting demon:D I've been guilty of that, and still am. I'm doing it RIGHT NOW, darn it. I would like to add that hardboard is a good choice to practice on, as well (or even to do more than practicing, of course).and in fact I've found it to be cheaper than any decent paper. (Of course that depends on where you are, most places in the States you can find hardboard inexpensively at Home Depot or Lowe's.and they'll usually cut it for you.last time I added up and divided, I think it was about 5 cents for a primed 5x7 board, 8 cents for an 8x10!

I sanded the smooth surface of the board and applied a few coats of acrylic gesso, and sealed the other edges with polyurethane or something along those lines.) Wow, that's really cheap, I wasn't aware of that. Paper is a lot cheaper than board in Brazil, though, so that's why I suggested it. In that case, those living in the US can disregard my advice about paper.:thumbsup. Here's another that one may wish to try out.

This is good for small studies etc. With minimum expence; paint on tracing/bakeing paper taped to a board. The paper has already a non-absorbent side so the oil won't get sucked up. Another great one is to start off small. Do some small works to get yourself acquainted with your brushes and paints. Most of my works are no bigger than A3 and just about all my study paintings are A4 in size. In other words 'don't bite off more than you can chew.'

Quote: Originally Posted by Ironmaul Yeah, the internet is a fantastic tool, but can be a nasty time wasting demon I've been guilty of that, and still am. I'm doing it RIGHT NOW, darn it. Haha, we're addicts! It calls to us with it's loving voice.so hard to resist:D. So why do you classify yourself as a beginner? Because I've only just begun?:D Honestly, even though I practiced drawing seriously for years as a kid and teen, I let it all slide to pursue other interests, and I'm now coming back and making a serious and definite attempt at learning how to paint.

Maybe I have a gift, but I wouldn't dismiss years and years of drawing practice and hours of THEORY study. I did start to learn it a couple of times throughout the years, but I didn't go very far. This is right now is actually the farthest I have gone. But as I mentioned in the first post, I decided I won't call myself a beginner anymore. I'm an intermediate-level painter now.:) But given how much I know that I DON'T know, I still think my journey's just begun.

I don't know. In what sense? Do you mean that beginners might be tempted to use it to darken EVERY color or something like that? I think that it is an important lesson for beginners to realize that shadows and dark places have a lot of color in them and that black can just be too strong and flat looking. Once a beginner understands this, then black can be really useful. It take time for someone to see all the colors in life. I sometimes ask people what color clouds are, for a laugh, and of course they quickly answer 'white.'

But anyone who has ever painted clouds knows that they are so much more than white. I think it takes a bit of time for beginners to make the distinction too.

But there have been many a thread on this issue, and this is just my opinion. George, you are one of the lucky ones with a natural talent, I am always in awe of people like you!! Jenni:thumbsup: How do Jenni Its like everything else in this world.If ya ain't born with it then it don't mean you can't do it ie if you have the basic knowledge of something then it wise to seek tuition on it otherwise it'll be hard struggle for the individual when there's shorcuts on how to improve that talent available. Sure some people have to pay for that tuition but if its in your heart to keep at that talent then you should find a way to aquire that tuition. But in some cases there is usually free art classes or even a local weekly get together with at least one artist who is advanced and willing to share his/her knowledge.there's ways and means ya just got to think how to aquire the knowledge,obviously WC is a great help to the inexperienced artist but there's no substitute on seeing how things are done in person. That must be my longest post on here? Move over Larry:):thumbsup.

Here's another that might help someone that can't draw as well as they would like to. Most people know this trick but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Use a grid over your reference pic/photo and get yourself gridded paper then draw on that useing the grid for reference points. (I had bulk grided paper specialy printed up years ago and I still have heaps) This is also a good method to teach your mind to see negative space and shapes. After awhile reduce the number of grids and see how you go.

Do this until you only have a cross hair for reference. Some people call this cheating but that's already been spoken of here on the forums. Don't let that kind of talk deter you from trying it out, it is a helpful learning tool. After awile when you have enough confidence draw without any guides/grids, you'll probably suprise yourself.

The other good thing about gridded paper is if your reference pic is a little small you can alway up the size to whatever you want by adjusting the grid size. I sketched quite a bit with my trusty copy of 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' by Betty Edwards, which I found invaluable. Jenni is certainly right about this one, definatly worth having in your art library. Another thing besides good brushes, paints and pallet knives is one tool that I can't go without, and that's a good size lightbox. If you can get one cheap without having to make one yourself then your in front.

Having one of these saves a lot of time and trouble when coming to transfering preliminary sketches to good drawing paper or to the board/paper that I'm going to paint on. How I put my drawing to my board is easy and I'll share it with you.

Once my preliminary sketch is drawn up(using my gridded paper) I put it on my light box face down. I then staple tracing paper over the to of that and go over the outline with a HB maybe darker pencil. Once done I tape the tracing paper on my board(graphit side to the board, but you already know that;) ) and go over the lines again with your pencil and presto! It's on there. Give a qiuck spray with retouch varnish or if you don't have that use a light wash of acrylic paint to seal the graphit.

You could also use a sepia ink wash if you like, it does just as good as the others. I like sepier ink as you can rub away some of it to lighten areas or just mix it in with you gesso to tone it down to whatever value yo like. Wow, I go away for a day, and there's an overwhelming response. I'll take this in parts. Use a grid over your reference pic/photo and get yourself gridded paper then draw on that useing the grid for reference points. I never do anything other than free hand, partly because I like it, partly because I feel like I'd be 'cheating'. Of course it's not cheating, but it's in my subconscious.

However, I get the impression that even gridding is not really that easy. You still have to work hard at it. I've seen someone advise people to trace over old masters' works in order to learn, and even that might be good, I think. ANY drawing practice is good. Drawing is something you have to keep constantly practicing. I wouldnt use paper.just seems so fragile If you prime it, there's no issue. But do what you like, of course.

CareyG has already chimed in saying that hardboard is cheaper than good heavy paper in the US. I sketched quite a bit with my trusty copy of 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' by Betty Edwards, which I found invaluable. I guess classes, for a beginner, is a preferable way to go as well & practice, practice, practice. By the sound of the books that Bright Eyes has mentioned, I may be up for some extra reading AND MORE PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

I have a very similar book called The Natural Way to Draw by Nicolaides, but I never really got around to using it. It reached my hands way too late, I already have deeply ingrained drawing practices from my childhood onwards. Maybe I should work at it, but the way I draw now doesn't seem to hurt my progress in any way, so. I really like your breakdown of the beginner painting process.

Have you read Juliette Aristides two books 'Classical Drawing Atelier' and 'Classical Painting Atelier'? If you haven't I highly recomend them for you. She lays out the beginning process the same way you do. I love her books. I think you would enjoy them. Actually, no. But coincidentally, I just ordered Classical Painting Atelier, on the strength of others' recommendations.

Looking forward to it. Its like everything else in this world.If ya ain't born with it then it don't mean you can't do it ie if you have the basic knowledge of something then it wise to seek tuition on it otherwise it'll be hard struggle for the individual when there's shorcuts on how to improve that talent available.

I absolutely agree. You don't have to have a natural talent to succeed in art. All you have to do is work your fingers to the bone. If you DO have talent, you still have to work hard. I'm an example of someone who has a gift, but who doesn't work nearly hard enough.

Don't follow my example.:eek: Well, yes. I think that it is an important lesson for beginners to realize that shadows and dark places have a lot of color in them and that black can just be too strong and flat looking. Once a beginner understands this, then black can be really useful. It take time for someone to see all the colors in life.

I sometimes ask people what color clouds are, for a laugh, and of course they quickly answer 'white.' But anyone who has ever painted clouds knows that they are so much more than white. I think it takes a bit of time for beginners to make the distinction too.

But there have been many a thread on this issue, and this is just my opinion. I completely agree with you. One of the hardest parts of mastering the art of painting,in my opinion, is learning to SEE.

Learning how to mix colors is just a consequence. On the more practical side of things, I was just thinking how hard it is to work without a decent environment. You need plenty of light (some prefer natural light exclusively, others prefer fluorescent, others prefer a combo), and a stable easel.

Don't even think of drawing or painting without something stable to place your support on, like I did for a while. It's nearly impossible to produce anything decent like that, and you get frustrated really quickly. You should also create a routine that allows you to practice everyday (or nearly so) for at least an hour without being disturbed. Don't even think of painting anything if you only have a few minutes. If you do have a few minutes to spare, practice your drawing. Also take frequent breaks.

A few minutes every hour or so works for most people. Let your eyes rest. Take yourself away from what you're painting for a while, so you can actually see it again. One of the things that I'm still training myself to do is to look at what I'm painting as if I'm somebody else. You need to step outside yourself, so to speak, to actually see it from a more unbiased perspective. Also learn to actually look at the whole while you're working at a small part of the painting.

Step away from it before and after you apply a series of brushstrokes. Paintings usually have an optimum viewing distance, but you should worry about what they look like from a variety of places. If you're painting a portrait, and getting a likeness is essential, it helps to turn the painting AND the reference upside down so you can look at it as shapes, not as a face. Here's one that I wish I new about when I first started painting, it's adding medium to your oil paints.

Don't use your brush! Or even an eyedropper to add medium to your paint, unless you have a bucket load of paint to mix. The most simple and easiest way is to dip your pallete knife into your medium and then mix it into your paint.

I have found this the best way for small amounts of paint on the pallete, just continue dipping the knife in your medium until you have the consistancy you want. No mess, no fuss. Has anyone else ever noticed that whenever there's a movie about a painter, they show the guy painting at the speed of light, throwing paint on the canvas like a maniac? Think Pollock, Lust For Life, stuff like that. And it leads me to this piece of advice in Richard Schmid's book Alla Prima that I find invaluable, and that I carry with me: always be deliberate when you're painting.

Looseness should be in the way a picture looks, not in the way it is done. My painting is always better when I do it in a somewhat slow and highly focussed manner, aiming for the best result possible. I know many people see painting as fun, but I can't agree with that view. Painting is anything but fun to me.

Of course, I get a tremendous sense of achievement when things go right, but I don't do it to relax, I do it because I must. Well this is very interesting, but I have to say expensive brushes are not as important as you might think, unless you are after realism. Almost every painting I do in Oils is done with very inexpensive brushes, they are hog bristle brushes 1/2' to 1' and I pay about.30 cents apeice for them Yeah, ok I should have mentioned that I'm a realist painter. However, most of my brushes are cheapos, only a couple are actually decent, that's why I find that good brushes do make a difference, because I end up always reaching for the better ones. I never said expensive brushes, though. There are good cheap brushes.

Good brushes last longer, and keep their shape better. However, a good painter can paint with tooth picks, it's just harder to do it, and a beginner doesn't need any more hindrances than he or she already has. I'd like to thank all of you guys for reading this, for taking the time to comment and also for adding your own experiences, but I'd like to make it clear that all that I'm sharing here are my own experiences and opinions.

I just found something quite interesting about preparing paper for oil painting. I'm quoting Virgil Elliott's method from this (discussion in the ARC Forum, I hope he doesn't mind my reproducing his words here: 'Give the paper one thin coat of acrylic gloss medium thinned by half with water; let it dry overnight or longer, then give it three or four coats of Golden's acrylic gesso and let it cure for a couple of weeks; then wipe the surface with a cloth dampened with distilled water, and wait another day before painting on it, to be sure all the water has evaporated completely. The sizing isolates the ground from the paper, preventing support-induced discoloration, and the final wiping removes the surfactants and other additives that would have migrated to the surface as the acrylic cures, which otherwise could interfere with adhesion. The gesso can be tinted, if desired, by adding acrylic paint to it before applying it. If the study turns out well, you can extend its life by several hundred years by gluing it to a rigid panel. If it turns out badly, the support is cheap enough that it can be tossed in the trash without anxiety.

This tends to give a painter a sense of freedom to experiment that might be absent when working on a support that represents a considerable monetary expenditure, and can often yield pleasant surprises in the results. One learns something even when the picture does not turn out well, so the experience of painting is never time wasted. Hi - new user / new painter. I have always loved art and used to paint in high school but took a long hiatus. Now 38 I took the plunge about 5 months ago and it's my favorite pastime (and long way from my life as a math nerd / programmer / quantitative trader). I started in acrylics for ease of use, clean up and after a few canvases opined for a medium with more workability, depth, and richness; therefore, oils. However, I did not have the space to use turps or other toxic additives so I was very happy to find water soluble oils.

I promise there is relevance to this forum after my verbose introduction. I've used W&N because my local Blick had them and they were cheaper than the Holbein Duos.

What I've found is that some pigments are very thick and unless greatly thinned can be difficult to work with when painting wet on wet - you use too much water and everything runs / you paint straight from the tube with some pigments and it's so think it will almost not come off the brush unless you use a fair amount of pressure and make a mess. Is this typical of H2Oils?

I see they are much less expensive than W&N, but lack some of the pigments I want and based on other posts I assume as in everything in life cheaper never means someone is making less money - it means someone is cutting corners to gain market share with an inferior product (see, some of my business life comes in handy in everyday decisions). So, as more experienced artists do you feel like the cost savings make for a qualitatively indistinguishable product? Do water soluble paints compare to traditional oils in workability and if yes, how do the H2Oils hold up against other brands? I did post this exact comment on a H2Oils forum and realized the last post was from 2004. So I thought I would cast a wider net. Thanks and sorry for my lack of brevity.

You may want to start a thread on water miscible oils or do a search. I have absolutely zero experience with them.

However, I'll quote something from Mark Christopher Weber's Brushwork Essentials about water-miscible oils: 'As with other oils, a wide disparity exists between the quality and effectiveness of the different brands eventhough only a handful of manufacturers makes water-solubles. If at all possible, try samples of a brand first. Some lines are superb, while other are so difficult to handle they could be confused with glue. I much prefer Holbein's Duo Aqua Oil.' As with any kind of oil paint, you usually get what you pay for. Addy, Quote:I completely agree with you.

One of the hardest parts of mastering the art of painting,in my opinion, is learning to SEE. Learning how to mix colors is just a consequence....

I feel that for me this is the hardest thing, yes, I could sketch but I had no experience with colours and how to mix them to get the result I wanted. I am getting better over time but it has taken a few mistakes to get here. As for the upside down drawing, I was amazed at what I drew by just drawing lines and shapes not drawing parts of the body.

It really works! Ironmaul, these books we have will always be an important part of my library, they taught me so much. I feel that for me this is the hardest thing, yes, I could sketch but I had no experience with colours and how to mix them to get the result I wanted.

I am getting better over time but it has taken a few mistakes to get here. As for the upside down drawing, I was amazed at what I drew by just drawing lines and shapes not drawing parts of the body.

It really works! I'm glad that was useful, Jenni. In art, you'll realize, it takes a LOT of mistakes to get anywhere.

Don't be afraid to make them. Don't be afraid of wasting paint or any materials. Btw, one mistake that beginners tend to do is to squeeze too little paint on their palettes. You need substantial amounts of pigments to paint. Paint like a millionaire, John F.

Carlson said. And when you mix your hues, make sure you mix enough that you won't have to mix it all over again every few minutes when you run out. Give the paper one thin coat of acrylic gloss medium thinned by half with water; let it dry overnight or longer, then give it three or four coats of Golden's acrylic gesso and let it cure for a couple of weeks; then wipe the surface with a cloth dampened with distilled water, and wait another day before painting on it, to be sure all the water has evaporated completely. The sizing isolates the ground from the paper, preventing support-induced discoloration, and the final wiping removes the surfactants and other additives that would have migrated to the surface as the acrylic cures, which otherwise could interfere with adhesion. The gesso can be tinted, if desired, by adding acrylic paint to it before applying it. And that's a MASSIVE amount of effort to prepare paper for a throw-away painting or a quick study.

If you're a beginner, just buy some already prepared and inexpensive oil painting paper. As I wrote before, I find the oil painting paper to be better than those awful Fredrix canvas over cardboard panels. If you can't afford Canson Canva-Paper, you need to spend more time looking for a job and less time painting. Of course, if you are an experienced artist, and your goal is some special effect you can only get from a certain paper, then the method above is good. The acrylic gloss medium acts as a sealer to prevent the oil paint from coming in contact with the paper. I don't know where you're located, but 'prepared and inexpensive oil painting paper' is not easily found in every country of the world. In Brazil you can't even buy decent locally made oil paint to begin with.

If you want to use decent paint you have to pay import prices for even the cheapest brands. But as Virgil said, you don't have to throw away your painting just because it's on paper, and it will certainly outlast us. I'm beginning to regret ever mentioning anything about paper in this thread. Guys, if you think it's not worth it, do whatever you like. I only do it because I compared my options, and reached the conclusion that it was the best for me, given the circumstances. And I even got to like it.

For those lucky enough to live in the United States, $5.45 for 10 sheets, less than the cost of a Big Mac with fries: They also sell it, or something like it, at most art supply stores. You can tape it to a piece of cardboard or hardboard or something like that to make it easier to paint on. Great for practice paintings. A better surface than canvas over cardboard panels. These pads are even better, because they are glued on four sides you can just put the whole pad on an easel, and the paper is a little higher quality: Are they worth twice the price?

I guess another reason to be glad that I live here and not somewhere else. On the other hand, I hear maids and houses are really cheap in less developed countries. Here, you have to live in a tiny hovel and clean the place yourself if you're not rich. Rembrandt was a very unorthodox painter. Self taught and took textures to extremes. Some times he painted with the blunt end of the brush, which is what I think we are seeing here.

Being a fan of the Italian school, he used sgrafitto quite often. What amazes me the most is the rough texture on his lights. And yet when viewed from optimum distance, it completely fools the eye. He reportedly dragged people a few steps away from his paintings in order for them to look from the right distance claiming that the smell would bother them.

If you want to be a painter - paint. And paint and paint. Dont waste your time with drawing. Time spent drawing or practicing anything (including painting) is never wasted. I've read countless accounts of painters who, after years painting, claim to have noticed an improvement in their work when they focused on drawing for a while. Not to mention centuries of great paintings and generations of great artists produced according to a method in the same lines as I'm suggesting. One can never have too much knowledge or skill, and painting is a craft too.

Som ecracking links there Addy - thanks for taking the time to add them:) Thank you. I'm glad someone appreciates it. Rembrandt was a very unorthodox painter. Self taught and took textures to extremes. Some times he painted with the blunt end of the brush, which is what I think we are seeing here. Rembrandt was instructed by Jacob Isaakszoon van Swanenburch in his teens, and then he studied with Pieter Lastman, so it isn't quite accurate to say he was self-taught.

He did surpass his teachers, and brought new ways of doing things into his painting, but that isn't the same as being totally self-taught. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com. Drawing and painting are somewhat different skillsets. With the help of tracing paper and an inexpensive laser printer, you can get paint pretty realistic looking paintings without being great at freehand drawing. As a hobbyist who acknowledges he will never be a professional artist, I can live with that. I would encourage people who want to paint as a hobby, but can't draw well, to learn to cheat and have fun with the painting. Hal, To paint well, it takes a good eye.

To anyone with a good enough eye to paint well, drawing well is not terribly difficult. If one has trouble drawing, it's because his/her eye is not good enough. Drawing is the way to develop a good eye. Without a good eye, one is apt to think what he or she is doing is better than it is. People regard drawing as something to be avoided precisely because they aren't good at it.

But when one gets better at drawing, it becomes a more fulfilling experience, and indeed fun can be had doing it. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com. Just found this really cool write-up by Tad Spurgeon called oils 101 (Quite entertaining AND informative. Here's his own description of the text: 'This text began as a handout in a Beginning Oil class and has been growing now for several years. I'd suggest downloading it and printing it if you're interested in starting to paint.

It will save you lots of time and lots of money: I don't work for anybody but the Muses.' There's a bunch more great info at his site at G'night.

Well, in defence of drawing. One way to use drawing is to work, rework, discarded, modify until it is ready to transfer to the canvas.

Now one reason that this is important is that paint goes transparent with age, so the closer you get to the final design in the initial painting stage the better. If you have layers of painted lines, you run the risk of them becoming visible over time, especially if they are covered with a light coloured paint. The thinner the paint film, the less likely it is to crack. Also, drawings on paper can be modified or discarded easily, but canvas has to be wiped clean or left to dry before modifying. Pencil is invaluable for roughing out ideas too. Apart from that, pencil or charcoal is an excellent and cheap tool for learning how to construct and model form. What you learn from that is directly transferable to paint.

James, One thing that I think you could learn is a little modesty. Anything drawing will teach.

Can also be learned using a brush - making an accurate mark. Is making an accurate mark no matter the medium used. So i would rather use the medium I want to flourish in - paint. For me drawing is completely irrelevant. Each stroke with a pencil would be a literal waste. And a stroke I could have made with a brush.

Allowing me to further develop my painting. And since I'm not concerned with creating a good drawing. But a masterful painting. There is no point in me drawing.

Thats the way it works in my mind. How much do you think a person can develop this *eye*? James, What you are presenting is your belief from your perspective, your present level of knowledge, your experience. Forgive me if I can't find it in me to agree with it, but my own experience from a long life as an artist and teacher has led me to quite a different understanding of the matter.

I'm open to revising my view, if something sufficiently compelling were to come to my attention that would warrant it, but so far you haven't presented anything that qualifies. If there is something you haven't shown us that you think would change our minds, I hope we'll get to see it. If it's really good, I'm sure we could all enjoy seeing it and learning from it. I often paint without beginning with a drawing, but I learned how to see by drawing, and that's what enables me to paint without actually drawing when I choose to work that way. In 27+ years of teaching art, I've seen the most significant advances in my students' painting abilities when I brought them back to drawing to improve their ability to observe and understand what they were looking at, to correct the problems in seeing that had prevented them from getting any better at painting no matter how much they practiced painting. They were blind to their shortcomings until their eyes became better educated. That's what I was getting at when I said, 'Without a good eye, one is apt to think what he or she is doing is better than it is.'

And drawing is what it took to educate their eyes. It has been that way with artists and art students for hundreds of years.

If you have a better way, show us, please. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com. And since I'm not concerned with creating a good drawing. But a masterful painting. There is no point in me drawing. Thats the way it works in my mind. How much do you think a person can develop this *eye*?

James, Without the ability to create a good drawing, you will never be able to create a masterly (that's actually the correct term) painting. It seems you're basing your belief on conjecture rather than on actual experience creating masterly paintings.

How much a person can develop the artistic eye depends on many things, including the lessons he is willing to apply himself to, his intelligence, his willingness to listen to people better qualified to speak with authority than he is and to give due consideration to what they say rather than argue with it without a good basis for arguing. By placing the word 'eye' in quotation marks, you indicate that this concept is not a familiar one to you. I suggest you'll handicap your own progress if you dismiss it too lightly. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com. The canvas is where you will make your mark.

If you're able. James the title is Advice from a beginner to other beginners. You made a remark for pro's. Its not fair to the beginners. Addy paints like a pro! For me drawing is completely irrelevant. Each stroke with a pencil would be a literal waste.

And a stroke I could have made with a brush. Allowing me to further develop my painting Is this how you began painting.

Or did you draw your whole live. Or are you a nature talent in drawing. The quickest way painting well is in my mind drawing a lot.

I was sceptical too, but as an Advice from a beginner to other beginners, and if you cant draw, draw a lot and your paintings improve! Pencil or charcoal is an excellent and cheap tool for learning how to construct and model form. Well said ron Its the same bad advice for brushes. If you can choose between a pig haired brush worth $ 0,50 or $ 15,00, choose the last its worth the money. Before this, I had not drawn at all since 1999 So you ve trained your eye for drawing maybe more then 10 years.

You re an experienced painter. But what do you ve to do when you ve the drawing skill of a 5 year old and like to paint? Have to have a drawing ability to paint a tree or a flowing river,house ect,ect ie there's a mental picture in our minds of how these look from life and all we have to do is transfer those mental images to canvas And 50 people present in a bar doing all kind a stuff?:rolleyes. People post paintings here all the time. Many of them look really bad because they are drawn poorly. These people could have produced much better paintings if they had 'cheated' by using my tracing paper and a laser printer advice.

There's a reason why art supply stores carry a lot of tracing paper. People are using it. I think my advice is more useful than some other advice which says they should give up on painting until they can learn to freehand draw like a master. They will probably give up on learning how to draw like a master and give up on their hobby. It is incomprehensible to me why fellow artists would argue against something so fundamental. I have seen many beginners seek out help from those here with experience. They recognise early that to pursue this endeavor, it is rewarding, it is therapeutic, it heals the spirit, and it enriches their lives.

I think they are savy enough to weed though the advice and choose the path they want and think is best for themselves. We are fortunate to have a few members with the knowledge and experience of the caliber such as Virgil who take the time to contribute. I only hope that they don't shake their head and turn away from doing that.

James -- You are definitely highjacking the thread and giving advice that is impractical for the vast majority of artists, whether beginning or professional. I'm not a huge fan of drawing for drawing's sake, yet I recognize it as the foundation of any painting. Whether the design is laid down by pencil, charcoal or brush, the accuracy of the final work depends on the drawing and continued correctional drawing/painting throughout the work to completion. I've very rarely seen an accomplished representational painter that didn't draw the design before beginning painting.

Even in abstract, the initial concept is often drawn as a sketch for paint placement. I don't usually criticize work negatively, but since you offered your work as examples of your point, I would say you are not making progress defending your position. Your work shows promise, but is lacking in grace and accuracy, both aspects of proper drawing and observation. I prefer to leave this thread as it was intended: practical advice from a recent beginner to hopeful painters just beginning. Nonsense,I've seen painters just paint and without a drawing and created a master piece. If you would read what I wrote more carefully before posting a needlessly offensive reply such as 'Nonsense,' perhaps you would understand what I actually said, and realize that you're arguing against something my words did not say. The artists who can paint well without beginning the painting they are working on at the moment with a drawing, are artists who have the ability to draw, and they developed that ability by drawing, in the course of which they learned to see, i.e., observe well and understand what they were looking at, which is precisely what has enabled them to paint well.

Please note what I wrote before: 'I often paint without beginning with a drawing, but I learned how to see by drawing, and that's what enables me to paint without actually drawing when I choose to work that way.' The powers of observation are very important to an artist, as an enabling factor, and the first step in developing them is drawing, just as the first step on the path to becoming a mathematician is to learn to add and subtract. One cannot be expected to comprehend advanced calculus who doesn't know how to do simple arithmetic, and by the same token one who cannot draw well will not be able to paint well. The powers of observation also bear on reading comprehension, spelling, and other mental endeavors seldom associated with drawing in most people's minds. Thus developing them by drawing is beneficial in many more ways than one. From my perspective, it was worth the effort, and I derived great enjoyment from it from my first lesson onward, which I remember with crystal clarity from sixty-two years ago.

I have no doubt that everyone would benefit from learning to draw, whether they want to be an artist or not, and the earlier in life they learn it, the better. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com. It is incomprehensible to me why fellow artists would argue against something so fundamental. I have seen many beginners seek out help from those here with experience. They recognise early that to pursue this endeavor, it is rewarding, it is therapeutic, it heals the spirit, and it enriches their lives.

I think they are savy enough to weed though the advice and choose the path they want and think is best for themselves. We are fortunate to have a few members with the knowledge and experience of the caliber such as Virgil who take the time to contribute. I only hope that they don't shake their head and turn away from doing that. Thank you, Sid. It can indeed be very discouraging. My prolonged absences from WC are due to what I consider inappropriate responses to helpful information more than anything else.

Virgil www.virgilelliott.com. This thread started out to be helpful for beginers. Now it seems to have gone to the dogs! I guess you get one in every crowd. Another tip; Don't spray too much retouch varnish over your initial drawing before painting. I've recently done this and I'm having no end of trouble to get the paint to sit right in places. Experimenting doesn't always go as planned but each mistake/failure teaches you something new to aviod in the future.

That's why I would advocate to start painting small pieces of work first, less waste, it's cheaper, and you finish your painting quicker allowing you to produce more paintings over time to get the pratice in. Practice makes perfect. Disclaimer: I like to achieve realistic results in my painting as does Addy. I believe that was the intent of this thread, to help beginers on the road to achieving realistic results. This is a very interesting thread and I appreciate the insight given here. However, the subject is not *solely* about the merits of drawing ability, so let's please not argue too much about that, at least not to the exclusion of other things pertaining to the topic.:) ~!Carey Well then, I probably shouldn't have entered the discussion at all, if it's just supposed to be beginners advising beginners. I was a beginner once, but it was a very long time ago.

Advice from a beginner might turn out to be good, but it also might not, so it seems to me it would be more to the point to seek advice from someone who is beyond beginner level. In any case, I'm happy to bow out. Feel free to ignore anything I said, or delete it, as you see fit. Virgil Elliott www. Mybase 4 85 Download Itunes on this page. virgilelliott.com.

Well then, I probably shouldn't have entered the discussion at all, if it's just supposed to be beginners advising beginners. I was a beginner once, but it was a very long time ago. Advice from a beginner might turn out to be good, but it also might not, so it seems to me it would be more to the point to seek advice from someone who is beyond beginner level.

In any case, I'm happy to bow out. Feel free to ignore anything I said, or delete it, as you see fit. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com (I for one appreciate it and thank you wholeheartedly for your input, Mr. I can understand your frustration as I feel the same, and I have already removed myself from this discussion. I'd actually be glad if a mod could close this thread, as it's going nowhere, and whoever reads it can still maybe gleam something useful from it.

Actually, I think this thread is quite salvageable. I would like to believe that I have achieved intermediate skills now (fingers crossed), and I found all comments quite useful. To have people like Virgil give his insight is quite useful and welcome, especially when there are so many willing to give advice that probably have no business doing so. I do like to read everyone's thoughts on the subject. For myself, I found drawing indispensable. I don't think it was particularly hard to learn basic skills either. So I don't think people should be put off by the exercise.

Learning to measure, understanding perspective, and relating shapes is something I use all the time. I spend way less time noodling because my foundation wasn't correct. Even in Plein Air, I do a quick sketch to help assemble a plan. Further, I don't believe that our education (at any level) ever really ends.

We constantly improve our skills as we push ourselves to achieve better art. Although my sketching is passable, I work to improve it all the time. I guess I would akin drawing skills to that of a baker.

A person who is untrained can probably make a passable cake through trial and error. But a person who learns how to measure and how the ingredients work together will have much more success at a faster rate. The proof is in the pudding! Addy -- I hope you take this the right way: You are reacting to this back & forth far too personally!

By that I mean you have done an excellent job by starting this thread (don't berate yourself with regret!), and your views and experience are appreciated. If you look from the outside, you will see you stimulated many people to contribute to a dialog here. These threads take on a life of their own to some extent, and you have to let it go on its way. When you have something the sparks people's interest, you can always start another thread!:) And finally, don't be dismayed by debate, even when it is slightly discourteous or pulls the thread away from the original intent. The good ideas and wiser approaches will rise to the top and add to the wealth of information on this website. I think it is safe to presume this is part of the reason we continue to see such valuable contributors, such as Virgil Elliot and others, despite the occasional rebuffs from the unwashed. Thanks for starting the thread and thanks to all the contributors who've tried to make it an informative exchange of views.

PS -- We cross-posted. I see you have modified your original post. Sometimes editing is the better part of valor.:). These threads take on a life of their own to some extent, and you have to let it go on its way. I've already made up my mind to do that (for good) unless a mod does some editing. I'm not for deleting, as everyone is entitled their opinion, but moving the pointless discussion to a separate thread is warranted, IMO. I'm all for debate, but you must draw the line somewhere, and it's been crossed over and over here.

When you have something the sparks people's interest, you can always start another thread!:) No, thank you. I'll keep my ideas to myself from now on. It's not so much that I'm taking it personally (though I am), it's just that I really don't have enough time or energy for pointless endless arguments. No problem Addy, You started something unique here,and accumulated quite a few posts, you seem intellectual and talented.You are the future star:) Keep going,don't stop. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, Tigerpaw. I didn't do this to attract attention or to feed my own ego (otherwise I'd have uploaded lots of my own paintings here), and I don't want anybody to feel sorry for me. I'm just making a decision to restrain myself from now on.

Virgil, I would be TERRIBLY disappointed if you decided to stop giving us the benefit of your wisdom and experience because a few people disagreed with you. LGH, It seems you aren't the only one who feels that way, so I'll continue to contribute when I have something to say that's relevant to the discussion. But I must correct one point: it isn't being disagreed with that discourages me from participating, but the manner in which the disagreements are expressed; specifically, I cannot appreciate gratuitous offensive comments, which I equate with rudeness. With that said, I do feel I should address something that was posted by someone else a few days ago in this thread. So a beginner wishes to do representational painting, but can’t draw very well. What is he or she to do? (1) Ignore the problem and produce paintings that look like they were done by young children, or by people without any talent.

(2) Learn to draw well before painting. This could be a long time.

The guy who said it’s easy to learn to draw well posted an example of a rather poorly done drawing even though he was practicing for months. (Back in the old days, they made artists spend YEARS practicing their drawings before they were allowed to move up to paint.) (3) Learn to trace. That’s my recommendation and it’s still my recommendation, even though I concede that great master painters can probably also draw like a master. Furthermore, I believe that you do learn by tracing. Quality representational painting generally starts with a sketch done in pencil or charcoal (they say you should use charcoal, but be careful to use a light touch because too much charcoal will muddy up your paints). There’s not so much of a difference if the sketch was done entirely freehand, or if the sketch was done with the aid of devices like grids, tracing paper, projectors, etc.

Vermeer used a camera obscura, and his paintings are hanging in museums. If it was OK for Vermeer, it should be OK for you or me. I'm not saying that people shouldn't ever try to learn to draw better with pencil or charcoal, I'm saying that you need to use common sense, and that it's OK to use whatever methods are available in order to improve the quality of your foundation sketch for your oil painting. Proposal #3 above is essentially the same as #1. The results of beginning by tracing will be good only if the person doing it possesses the artistic eye of a person who can draw, and my experience indicates overwhelmingly that one cannot realistically expect to acquire that fine an eye without the right training, which begins with drawing. Whereas an uneducated eye might think the results are better than they are, I, and no doubt most or all other artists who can be said to have a good eye can readily spot the deficiencies as glaringly apparent in examples of the #3 recommendation, and they fit the #1 description more than passing for quality representational painting.

The best answer is #2. Reality is perhaps tough to come to grips with sometimes, but it is what it is. There are no shortcuts to Quality. Regarding the contention that Vermeer used a camera obscura, I don't believe this can be stated as fact until it has been proven to be true.

All there is is speculation to that effect, not anything that constitutes actual proof. I maintain further that even if he did use one for one purpose or another, it should not be construed as evidence that he could not draw, nor should it be taken as a valid reason to consider learning to draw unnecessary to an artist.

It is known that Vermeer was elected to head the Guild of St. Luke's, a professional artists' guild, which required proof of artistic competency as a condition of acceptance into the membership. No one who could not draw well could gain admittance to that guild, much less become its leader.

Art training in 17th century Holland began with drawing, without exception. So please let's not misconstrue or misrepresent the matter, especially in ways that would lead aspiring artists and art students down a path that would prove detrimental to the development of their talents. Virgil Elliott www.virgilelliott.com. James, Don't feel bad about posting in this thread.

You point of view is as valuable as anyone else's here. Your idea that you can learn everything that you need to know with paint is an interesting one and deserving of discussion. I can't see why it couldn't be done, although it would be much more logistically difficult and expensive.

I think the problem was that it quickly degenerated into argument rather than discussion and got bogged down. Please don't feel ostracised. BTW, your imagination and passion are commendable. Great thread. After about three years of oil painting myself, the initial post is exactly what I would have said. The ability to draw is crucial and has finally struck me. And it's not just the outlines and proportions, but also knowing how to make a whole range of values work.

I'd re-emphasize economizing while learning, as you can go thru a lot of materials. Some of the paints, like the generic at Dick Blick, I understand are professional grade quality, and equal or even less expensive than the student grades. Buying online for sales can save a lot too. Interestingly too, I tuned in this website to find an answer for a something I casually read in one of the more informative art books while browsing a bookstore recently, regarding the transition from transparent darks to opaque warms. And lo and behold, here's the author on this thread! A very good book: Here's my latest WIP, which still needs help in certain areas.

The grass is unfinished (that sap green takes forever to dry), weak rock composition on left, which as an example of the need to create a great drawing to start. Here's another that's probably is obvious but thought I'd mention it anyway. If you find that you are going to paint in detail (on small projects/area) then it's in you best interest to have your painting surface as smooth as a babys.well, you know what I mean.

If you have to paint small objects/figures you'll need the surface with extremly little texture, otherwise you'll find it very difficult to get those details in that make the difference. In my first oil painting I didn't do this and it was frustrating and the painting turned out visualy challnging. I still hate it to this day but it was a good lesson learned.

Rick, things like that seem like they should be obvious, but are not always!:thumbsup: I've read this thread but now don't remember:).has anyone mentioned, also, the need to pay attention to *edges*? I recall that was one thing that struck me forcefully after I had been painting for a short while.the special treatment of edges is just not something that usually occurs to an artist just starting out. Soft edges can create a soft focus, and help to make things seem 'round', while harder edges can create more of a focal point and really draw the eye. The proper treatment of edges can really make a decent composition much better, and working from life can really help to develop this skill as you have the benefit of your depth perception (beginners working from photos often don't know where to even begin since a camera captures things in a way that our eyes do not). Excellent point to bring up Carey and somewhat bizzar on my behalf.

I've just begun to explore that very thing myself. The painting I've recently posted was part of that exploration of softening edges.

Rick, things like that seem like they should be obvious, but are not always! Yeah, that's so true. It's these little golden nuggets of wisdom that help us along even though they seem trivial and most likely overlooked. Carey, is it worth considering to sticking this thread?

Lot of good info for beginers starting out. Text Based Lunar Lander Game: Full Version Free Software Download. Proposal #3 above is essentially the same as #1. The results of beginning by tracing will be good only if the person doing it possesses the artistic eye of a person who can draw, and my experience indicates overwhelmingly that one cannot realistically expect to acquire that fine an eye without the right training, which begins with drawing. Whereas an uneducated eye might think the results are better than they are, I, and no doubt most or all other artists who can be said to have a good eye can readily spot the deficiencies as glaringly apparent in examples of the #3 recommendation, and they fit the #1 description more than passing for quality representational painting. The best answer is #2.

Reality is perhaps tough to come to grips with sometimes, but it is what it is. There are no shortcuts to Quality. Seeing as I cannot yet draw for the life of me, I seldom visit the oil painting forum. Virgil will perhaps be happy to know that I got to this thread because, as I do now and then, I searched for all his latest posts simply to see what he is up to. I at least appreciate his posts.

On this subject I can only agree with him. I know from personal experience that you cannot paint any better than you can draw. And once you CAN draw even marginally well, you'll be surprised to find just how amazingly easy painting suddenly seems. Using a grid might give a surface appearance of greater sophistication than you actually possess, but to anyone with half an eye, it tends to be very obvious that the thing was painted with a grid. It is of course true that for the amateur, learning to draw will take many years because most of us have lives and careers and only limited time to put in all the required practice. So many of us will never in a lifetime quite become masters at drawing. And that means we'll never become masters at painting either.

That is sort of what 'amateur' means, isn't it? Now I don't think it is a question of either you learn to draw first, or you never, ever get to paint. There is no law that says you're not allowed to paint unless you can draw like a master. Van Gogh couldn't draw like a master and still painted some nice pictures, even if not exactly masterpieces of realism.

So my solution is to allow oneself to have a bit of fun with paint every now and then even if you cannot draw well yet. Keep your paintings (or photograph them and keep the photos), so that you can monitor your progress. You'll see how your painting improves along with your drawing.

Another thing that one can try is to make pen and ink drawings and then colour them in washes of watercolour. Then you get some drawing practice but you also get to satisfy the desire to work in colour.

I have been doing this for a while now, and by making small pen and watercolour sketches and then sticking them to cards to make homemade greeting cards, even managed to sell a few pieces. However, I would suggest that everyone takes the time to draw. Coming from someone who has been an exceptionally slow learner, and that after twenty years of regular practice is still only marginally competent, this probably says something.

The thing is, the more you draw, the more you realize just how satisfactory it is as an end in itself, and the more you realize how unsatisfactory paintings are that have been done by someone that cannot draw properly. Drawing not only prepares you for painting; it hugely, massively, improves your taste in art. I dare say that if drawing was a requried subject in school, so that everyone with an education could draw (as used to be the case in previous centuries), the general level of art would greatly improve, all the impostors would find themselves back in day jobs where they belong and it would once again become a pleasure to visit art galleries.

Thanks, Addy, for starting this thread! Even if it did go off on an unexpected direction, it's been very informative and very interesting to follow.

As for drawing: My experience, (still a beginner after many years:lol: ), is that my lack of ability to draw well is definately affecting my ability to paint well. I suppose you could learn to draw with paint and brush, but I find that there are enough things to keep in mind when painting, that I wish I already had drawing, (perspective, form, composition, etc.), already mastered so that I could concentrate solely on the techniques of applying the paint, mixing the colors, etc. So I've concluded that for me the best thing to do is go back to drawing. I also, from experience, agree that you get the best grade paint and brushes you can afford. I began with very cheap paints and couldn't believe how hard it was. A decent brand of paint went on sale, I bought some and some better, though not expensive, brushes and was so surprised at the joy I felt when working with them. Part of my early frustration, I found, was from the materials I was using.

I'm really appreciative of the less expensive alternatives to canvas found in this thread. And also the suggestion of the limited pallet and reading material. Now I don't think it is a question of either you learn to draw first, or you never, ever get to paint. There is no law that says you're not allowed to paint unless you can draw like a master. Van Gogh couldn't draw like a master and still painted some nice pictures, even if not exactly masterpieces of realism. So my solution is to allow oneself to have a bit of fun with paint every now and then even if you cannot draw well yet. Keep your paintings (or photograph them and keep the photos), so that you can monitor your progress.

You'll see how your painting improves along with your drawing.Very good, brianvds. All in all, a very good thread in this beginners opinion. Thanks so much!

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Popular Discounted Gibson Books In Stock! Search Gibson In Our Ebay Store: Tube Amp Talk For The Guitarist & Tech Gerald Weber Book Series: Book Publisher: Kendrick Books. Popular Discounted Gibson Books In Stock! Search Gibson In Our Ebay Store: Tube Amp Talk For The Guitarist & Tech Gerald Weber Book Series: Book Publisher: Kendrick Books Format: Softcover Author: Gerald Weber For this follow-up to his popular A Desktop Reference of Hip Vintage Guitar Amps, Gerald Weber has compiled his articles and “Ask Gerald” columns that have appeared in Vintage Guitar from 1993 to 1996. As a special bonus, Ken Fischer's “Trainwreck Pages” from Vintage Guitar are also included. This book assumes that the reader has at least a working knowledge of tube guitar amplifiers, and it will be helpful and interesting whether or not guitarists intend to perform their own servicing.

RETA IL $39.95 (US) Inventory #HL 00330380 ISBN: 017 UPC: 85 Publisher Code: Width: 6.0 Length: 9.0 545 pages Book is Brand New! Retail Price: $40 SAVE! MAK E SURE YOU VISIT OUR EBAY STORE FOR THOUSANDS OF OTHER GUITAR RELATED ITEMS IN STOCK! #ChopRetail Brain Games: Sharpen Your IQ, Hardcover, Louis Weber, 2010, $19.99, Brand New, Hardcover, English, 2010, Games & Puzzles, SK-00694G-001, 56, 156.

#ChopRetail Brain Games: Sharpen Your IQ, Hardcover, Louis Weber, 2010, $19.99, Brand New, Hardcover, English, 2010, Games & Puzzles, SK-00694G-001, 56, 156, 159 #DontPayRetail #ChopRetail Do you know how to CHOP? Try It: CHOP NOW Brain Games: Sharpen Your IQ Hardcover Louis Weber 2010 CHOP MSRP: current price: you are saving: produ ct details Name: Brain Games: Sharpen Your IQ Format: Hardcover Author: Louis Weber Publicatio n Year: 2010 Condition: Brand New Feature: If you want to increase your IQ, prepare for a mental challenge! But you won't dread this workout because working puzzles is a fun and exciting way to whip your brain into shape. Format: Hardcover Langua ge: English Publicat ion Year: 2010 Subject: Games & Puzzles SKU: SK-00694G-001 UPC: 56 EAN: 156 IS BN: 159 Fr eeShippingUSA Co mbinedShipping F S:5.83 eComme rce Software. Donna Dewberry, oil painting, DVD Kit, flowers Donna Dewberry Basic Learn To Paint with Oil DVD Donna Dewberry Collection Pain t along with artist and instructor Donna Dewberry as she.

Donna Dewberry, oil painting, DVD Kit, flowers Donna Dewberry Basic Learn To Paint with Oil DVD Donna Dewberry Collection Pain t along with artist and instructor Donna Dewberry as she teaches you all you need to know about painting with oils. There are 4 lessons (Wildflower Path, Butterfly Garden, Birds to Lilies and Falls Creek Falls) each resulting in a gorgeous finished painting. Packag e contains: one DVD.

Running time: 190 minutes. Painting supplies not included. Manufacturer: We ber Item Number: 3601DVD Made in USA Genuine - New - Unopened - Sealed in the Original Package - Guarantee! All items are from a smoke-free and pets-free environment.

We update our items daily! Copyright © Valego Sales. All rights reserved. Sadler and Richard C. Roberts Utah State University Press, 1994. This book was part of a publisher's collection of unique reads.

MY AUCTIONS ARE QUALITY WOMENS AND. Sadler and Richard C. Roberts Utah State University Press, 1994.

This book was part of a publisher's collection of unique reads. MY AUCTIONS ARE QUALITY WOMENS AND MENS CLOTHING AND OTHER QUALITY ITEMS --- PAYMENT CAN BE MADE WITH PAYPAL ONLY. Payment I accept the following forms of payment: PayPal Click to View Image Album Click to View Image Album Shipping & Handling $3.99 USPS First-Class Mail® FREE scheduling, supersized images and templates. Get Vendio Sales Manager. FREE scheduling, supersized images and templates. Get Vendio Sales Manager.

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WE ARE NOT DEALERS OF NEW ITEMS. IF YOU WANT OUT OF PRODUCTION, OUT OF STOCK, DISCOUNTED ITEMS, RARE, SCARCE, WE ARE FOR YOU. PLEASE NOTE: WE SELL VINTAGE COLLECTIONS FROM AROUND THE WORLD. WE ARE NOT DEALERS OF NEW ITEMS. IF YOU WANT OUT OF PRODUCTION, OUT OF STOCK, DISCOUNTED ITEMS, RARE, SCARCE, WE ARE FOR YOU. OUR DESCRIPTIONS ARE THE BEST WE KNOW.

IF IT'S NOT PHOTOGRAPHED IT'S NOT INCLUDED. ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE BUYING PLEASE. WE DO NOT WANT ANY MISUNDERSTANDING ON DESCRIPTIONS. AN ADDITIONAL $2.00 FOR INSURANCE IS ADDED TO THE S/H FEE FOR ITEMS OVER $50. You are bidding on: An Art Technique Instruction Book Brushwork Essentials by Ma rk Christopher Weber The Keys To Superior Painting Can Be Yours!

These are the brushstrokes with which great oil paintings are created. They give you the power to convey everything from realistic light and shadow to dynamic mood and tension. Mark Christopher Weber shows you how to mix and load paint, shape your brush and apply a variety of intriguing strokes in nine easy-to-follow demonstrations. Special icons appear throughout the book to indicate which brush to use for each technique and when. #ChopRetail Brain Games: Sudoku, Paperback, Louis Weber, 2010, $19.99, Brand New, Working sudoku puzzles exercises your logic and problem-solving skills, giving your brain the exercise it.

#ChopRetail Brain Games: Sudoku, Paperback, Louis Weber, 2010, $19.99, Brand New, Working sudoku puzzles exercises your logic and problem-solving skills, giving your brain the exercise it needs without breaking a sweat!, Paperback, English, 2010, Games & Puzzles #DontPayRetail #ChopRetail Do you know how to CHOP? Try It: CHOP NOW Brain Games: Sudoku Paperback 300 Puzzles Louis Weber 2010 CHOP MSRP: current price: you are saving: produ ct details Name: Brain Games: Sudoku Format: Paperback Author: Louis Weber Publicatio n Year: 2010 Condition: Brand New Feature: Working sudoku puzzles exercises your logic and problem-solving skills, giving your brain the exercise it needs without breaking a sweat! Format: Paperback Langua ge: English Publicat ion Year: 2010 Subject: Games & Puzzles SKU: SK-00695E-001 UPC: 30 EAN: 730 IS BN: FreeS hippingUSA Combi nedShipping FS:5.85 eComme rce Software. REAL BOOK 128 pages very technical and detailed How to build & Power Tune Weber & Dellorto DCOE & DHLA Carburettors: 128 pgs. Hammill New COLOR 3rd edition in New, never opened. REAL BOOK 128 pages very technical and detailed How to build & Power Tune Weber & Dellorto DCOE & DHLA Carburettors: 128 pgs.

Hammill New COLOR 3rd edition in New, never opened condition We have over 30 other different Weber Books & Manuals in our Seattle store that we are working on listing We have over 50,000 other different Automotive Books & Manuals in our Seattle store that we are working on listing 246093 70_136 064 See our other books at our eBay store BooksforCars NO RESERVE We offer a shipping discount for multiple item purchases. See our ebay store. Please note our excellent ebay feedback rating. We accept all credit cards & paypal 4850 37th Ave S Seattle, WA 98118 USA (206) 721-3077 We accept Paypal, Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Discover. As They See 'Em - A Fan's Travels In The Land Of Umpires (CD, 2009) Bruce Weber PLEASE READ - CD AUDIO BOOK IS NEW AND UNOPENED - PACKAGING WILL HAVE WEAR FROM STORAGE - WE RECEIVE ALL OF.

The Honor of the Queen (Honor Harrington #2) by David Weber, (Mass Market Paperb, New, Free Shipping Right Woman, Wrong PlaceHonor Harrington has been sent to defend the planet Grayson -. The Honor of the Queen (Honor Harrington #2) by David Weber, (Mass Market Paperb, New, Free Shipping Right Woman, Wrong PlaceHonor Harrington has been sent to defend the planet Grayson -- where women are without rights, and her very presence is an affront to the establishment. But only she can save the planet from an enemy attack! Product Features and Specifications All of our products come with FREE Standard Shipping! Handling time on our orders is between 1-2 business days.

We will ship your item out using the most efficient carrier to your area (USPS, UPS, FedEx, Lasership, etc.). Once it has been shipped out, you should be receive it within 3 - 5 business days! Need your item fast? We offer faster shipment methods for your convenience upon checkout! Please make sure your shipping address is correct and accurate before completing your checkout.

We are not responsible for undeliverable addresses. Currently, we only ship to physical addresses located within the 48 contiguous states of America. Powered by Frooition.com All Items See our eBay store for more great items >>Shop Categories Accidental Saints: Finding God in All the Wrong People by Nadia Bolz Weber Item Description. Powered by Frooition.com All Items See our eBay store for more great items >>Shop Categories Accidental Saints: Finding God in All the Wrong People by Nadia Bolz Weber Item Description Hardcover: 224 pages Publisher: Conver gent Books (September 8, 2015) Language: English ISBN- 10: ISBN-13: 978- What if that person you've been trying to avoid is your best shot at grace today? And what if that's the point?

In Accidental Saints, New York Times best- selling au­thor Nadia Bolz-Weber invites readers into a surprising encounter with what she calls “a religious but not-so-spiritual life.” Tattooed, angry and profane, this former standup comic turned pastor stubbornly, sometimes hilariously, resists the God she feels called to serve. But God keeps showing up in the least likely of people—a church-loving agnostic, a drag queen, a felonious Bishop and a gun-toting member of the NRA. As she lives and worships alongside these “ac­cidental saints,” Nadia is swept into first-hand en­counters with grace. Honor Among Enemies (Honor Harrington #6) by David Weber, (Mass Market Paperback, New, Free Shipping In this sixth outing, Honor is invited to rejoin the Royal Manticoran Navy at the. Honor Among Enemies (Honor Harrington #6) by David Weber, (Mass Market Paperback, New, Free Shipping In this sixth outing, Honor is invited to rejoin the Royal Manticoran Navy at the instigation of some of her worst enemies. The RMN has withdrawn from the Silesian Confederacy in an effort to focus on its war with the People's Republic of Haven and the shipping cartels have been losing vessels: cargo, crews and all.

Klaus Hauptmann sees a glorious opportunity: invite Honor to command the Q-ships which will draw pirate and privateer fire. If she dies, great; if she succeeds, even better. Honor and her companion Nimitz find unexpected friends (and enemies) along the way, and fans of this series' space battles will not be disappointed. In addition to a better glimpse of the Silesian systems, we finally get to meet a few of the Andermani. Want to read more about Honor? Read about Honor's early career in On Basilisk Station, her first encounter with the Graysons in The Honor of the Queen, the beginning of the war.

Powered by Frooition.com All Items See our eBay store for more great items >>Shop Categories Slow Cooker Recipes Cookbook: Easy, Healthy and Delicious Recipes by Clark Weber Item. Powered by Frooition.com All Items See our eBay store for more great items >>Shop Categories Slow Cooker Recipes Cookbook: Easy, Healthy and Delicious Recipes by Clark Weber Item Description Paperback: 279 pages Publisher: Indepe ndently published (January 27, 2017) Language: English ISBN- 10: ISBN-13: 978- Slow Cooker Recipes Cookbook. My name is Clark Weber. I am a Chef in New York. These are the Slow Cooker recipes that I like most. I learned some of the recipes in this cookbook from different friends and relatives. I tried all of them myself and the results were fabulous.

I would also like to mention that I included in this cookbook only those slow cooker recipes which are fairly easy to cook, even though I have to admit that most of them will be ready in more than a couple of hours. This is because slow cooked meals need more cooking time compared to classic meals. But, the advantage comes from the fact that the slow cooking process is healthier and adds a great flavor to your meal. On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington) by David Weber, (Mass Market Paperback),, New, Free Shipping On Basilisk Station (or HH1 as it's known to the faithful) is the first installment in. On Basilisk Station (Honor Harrington) by David Weber, (Mass Market Paperback),, New, Free Shipping On Basilisk Station (or HH1 as it's known to the faithful) is the first installment in David Weber's cult hit Honor Harrington series, which has charmed the socks off schoolgirls and sailors alike.

Honor--the heroine of this fast-paced, addictive space opera--is a polished, plucky bulldog of a naval officer, part Horatio Hornblower, part Miles Vorkosigan, part Captain Janeway, and with a razor-clawed telepathic cat thrown over her shoulder for good measure. The series' kickoff puts a giddy Commander Harrington at the helm of her first serious starship, the HMS Fearless. But her excitement quickly fades--political maneuvering by top brass in the Manticoran navy has left her light cruiser outfitted with a half-baked experimental weapons system. Against all odds (just the way Honor likes it), she still manages a clever coup in tactical war games, a feat that earns her accolades--and enemies. The politicians she. Love Never Dies Phantom: The story continues.

Series: Vocal Selections Format: Softcover Composer: Andrew Lloyd Webber Our folio features 13 vocal selections to Lord Lloyd Webber's. Love Never Dies Phantom: The story continues. Series: Vocal Selections Format: Softcover Composer: Andrew Lloyd Webber Our folio features 13 vocal selections to Lord Lloyd Webber's follow-up to the global phenomenon The Phantom of the Opera that's set 10 years after the original in Coney Island. Songs include: Bathing Beauty The Beauty Underneath Beneath A Moonless Sky The Coney Island Waltz Dear Old Friend Devil Take The Hindmost Heaven By The Sea Look With Your Heart Love Never Dies Once Upon Another Time Only For Him/Only For You 'Til I Hear You Sing Why Does She Love Me? Width: 9.0 Length: 12.0 96 pages Froo www.froo.com Froo Cross Sell, Free Cross Sell, Cross promote, eBay Marketing, eBay listing Apps, eBay Apps, eBay Application.

Weber Grill Cleaning Kit - Grill Spray Cleaner, Stainless Steel Polish, Grill Scraper, Stain Remover, and 20 Grill Scrubber Pads (BBQ Tools & Accessories) Weber Stainless Steel Grill Kit. Weber Grill Cleaning Kit - Grill Spray Cleaner, Stainless Steel Polish, Grill Scraper, Stain Remover, and 20 Grill Scrubber Pads (BBQ Tools & Accessories) Weber Stainless Steel Grill Kit Has Everything You Need To Be A Grill Master Comes With Exterior Grill Cleaner, Grate Cleaner For Grease Buildup, And Stubborn Stain Remover Includes Grill Grate Scrubber Handle With 25 Scrubber Pads! Effective on Grill Exteriors, Outdoor Kitchens, Deep Fryers, And More.

Endorsed By The World Renowned Grill Masters From Weber Weber Stainless Steel Barbecue Grill Cleaning Kit is the premier way to keep your grill in pristine condition. Founded in 1893, Weber products have long been the trusted source for outdoor grills and grill accessories. Weber grills are synonymous with backyard barbecues and summertime parties, and this kit gives you everything you need to become the grill master your father always wanted you to be. This Weber grill care kit comes with one stainless steel polish spray (12 oz), one grate grill cleaner (16. Weber Grill Cleaning Kit - Grill Spray Cleaner, Stainless Steel Polish, Grill Scraper, Stain Remover, and 10 Grill Scrubber Pads Descript ion Brand New.

Weber Grill Cleaning Kit - Grill. Weber Grill Cleaning Kit - Grill Spray Cleaner, Stainless Steel Polish, Grill Scraper, Stain Remover, and 10 Grill Scrubber Pads Descript ion Brand New. Weber Grill Cleaning Kit - Grill Spray Cleaner, Stainless Steel Polish, Grill Scraper, Stain Remover, and 10 Grill Scrubber Pads Weber Stainless Steel Grill Kit Has Everything You Need To Be A Grill Master Comes With Exterior Grill Cleaner, Grate Cleaner For Grease Buildup, And Stubborn Stain Remover Includes Grill Grate Scrubber Handle With 15 Scrubber Pads Effective on Grill Exteriors, Outdoor Kitchens, Deep Fryers, And More. Endorsed By The World Renowned Grill Masters From Weber Size:Weber Grill Cleaning Ki Weber Stainless Steel Barbecue Grill Cleaning Kit is the premier way to keep your grill in pristine condition. Founded in 1893, Weber products have long been the trusted source for outdoor grills and grill accessories. Weber grills are synonymous with backyard barbecues and summertime parties, and this kit gives you everything you need to become the.

Weber 51010001 Q1200 Liquid Propane Grill, Black with Cuisinart Adaptor Hose >>Barbecues, Grills & Smokers Product Features Weber 51010001 Q1200 Liquid Propane Grill, Black Cuisinart. Weber 51010001 Q1200 Liquid Propane Grill, Black with Cuisinart Adaptor Hose >>Barbecues, Grills & Smokers Product Features Weber 51010001 Q1200 Liquid Propane Grill, Black Cuisinart 4-Foot LP Adaptor Hose Seller Links Contact Us eBay Store Shipping & Returns Why you Should Buy from Us? Trusted Seller, Great Feedback Quick Shipping and Tracking HUGE Discounts Excellent Returns Policy The BEST Customer Service Shipping & Returns We ONLY Ship to Continental US 30 Day Money Back Return Policy Items Ship within 24-72 Hours Product Description Thank You For Your Business! Make reading time a real adventure with this Q's Wild Ride storybook. Helps develop social & reading skills Works on managing emotions and impulses Improves listening comprehension CD. Make reading time a real adventure with this Q's Wild Ride storybook.

Helps develop social & reading skills Works on managing emotions and impulses Improves listening comprehension CD features the author's narration & sound effects What's Included 1 Storybook 1 CD Ages 3 years & up Size: One Size. Color: Multicolor. Gender: Unisex. Age Group: Kids. Weber iGrill 2 Thermometer >>Cooking Thermometers Product Features Four probe capacity Includes two pro-meat probes Bluetooth Smart connection Proximity Wake-Up Seller Links Contact Us. Weber iGrill 2 Thermometer >>Cooking Thermometers Product Features Four probe capacity Includes two pro-meat probes Bluetooth Smart connection Proximity Wake-Up Seller Links Contact Us eBay Store Shipping & Returns Why you Should Buy from Us? Trusted Seller, Great Feedback Quick Shipping and Tracking HUGE Discounts Excellent Returns Policy The BEST Customer Service Shipping & Returns We ONLY Ship to Continental US 30 Day Money Back Return Policy Items Ship within 24-72 Hours Product Description Grill with confidence & precision with the I grill 2 digital Bluetooth thermometer.

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